My feelings, and all mine.
Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:53 pm
We are a family.
What happens in families? Families get angry at each other. Families exacerbate problems that could be fixed with a simple smile. Sometimes, families split up and never see each other ever again, and they bring with them these hatreds that will never be repaired. Do we want to hate the people with whom we grew, with whom we’ve spoken, with whom we’ve cried and loved and raged? No. Sometimes, though, that hatred will grow anyway.
I have family that I hate. I have sisters who, out of loyalty to my father, I will never speak to again because of what they see in him and what they have said about him, who I will never contact them to let them know where he is being buried, because I, the loyal and proud son, do not believe they deserve that. Until the day that I die, I am going to regret that, but that is where I am going to stand.
With family also comes a loyalty that is unbreakable. But now we see the irony – I am loyal to my father and defensive of how he has been treated by those very women he saw raised. Yet, in this, I am entirely disloyal to those same women I call my sisters.
I am not right in this. But I am founded.
You might wonder why I started out with this. This is because I want people, first and foremost, to know what family means to me. I know it doesn’t mean this just to me. Family means this to everybody. Regardless of whether we have been hurt, left behind, angered, we all have family, even if we haven’t discovered them yet. I want any single person to show me another who doesn’t really, in their heart, know the meaning of family, and I will eat every single one of these words.
Now for the topic of my post.
We are a family. Though we’re weren’t born from the same parents, the blood that runs in our veins is the writing that we share and the stories that we create. Sometimes we don’t get along. Hell, some of us really even hate each other, but we are still family. Sometimes we say things that we regret, but a lot of the time, those are the things that we need to get right out there and say for fear that we’re going to explode.
So maybe now is going to be one of those things.
The past few days have been extremely hard for everybody. I want to preface this by saying that I am writing this post not as a player, not as a newly returned op, but as a person. I think I told two people that I was going to write this. So if I regret it, I’m sorry, but I think it needs to be said. This is me talking, not anybody else, so take that as it is and point all your anger towards me if it offends you.
The facts: We lost three people – Liz, Dan, and Pauline – to k-lines several days ago, and whether or not these k-lines were proper, to me, irrelevant. Liz apologized to the administrators and returned. Angie, showing great loyalty to her friends, managed to barter Dan’s position back on the channel. Pauline, feeling insulted by what had happened to her and the friends she defended, does not feel that she needs to apologize for what she has done. I do not blame that. I would be downright pissed, too, and I am.
A lot of people are up in arms about this. A lot of people are insulted, afraid, insecure, as to what might happen to other players on our channel. In this, there have been a lot of fingers pointing. There have been a lot of people being angry at one another, hurting each other even though they do not mean to, saying things that otherwise, they might not commonly say. Right now, the server is split in two. There are still players in StarChat trying to work out their own feelings on everything. There are players in the replicas of the Broken Dagger rooms on the DarkMyst server that are duly upset, and have every right to be.
A lot of people think the operators aren’t making a move to do anything. I am here right now, to let everybody know how hard they are working. You might believe that, you might not, and I don’t expect anybody to! But I am right now typing this up even after having spent twelve hours out of my day discussing and discussing and arguing and hating and being argued with and despised by fellow operators as to what the proper course of action should be to see to it that our family can flourish and that our family can come back together and have the fun, the enjoyment, the usual quips, and even the hatred that we might have still had before. People are at each other’s throats. People who would not normally yell at each other are doing just this, and it’s getting ugly.
Right now, whether or not you want to think it, our channel is split right down the middle. Players, operators, people all have been doing their damndest to make sure that something is done about this. Some people have acted sooner. Some people have acted later. I, personally, promised several players a poll on the boards today without the necessary due input from fellow operators. Maybe I should apologize for that, maybe I shouldn’t – but at this point, I don’t really care.
The truth is, no matter what side you’re on – whether you’re happy on StarChat, whether you’re ready to move to DarkMyst, whether you’re an operator or just a player looking for a place to stay – you’re not happy about any of this. And if you are happy with it, then understand that others aren’t.
We create things together. Everybody wants a chance to speak about it, but with speaking comes listening and understanding. Operators, if you think the players aren’t listening, you’re wrong. Players, if you think the operators aren’t working on this, you’re wrong. I have never been as sure about many other things in my life, but what I do know, no matter who you are, is that you have the heart to be involved in this and have an opinion. Everybody is putting their all into this, whether they’re insulted or they’re trying to be positive or they're furious.
You guys all know me, and you know I’m not a bullshitter in any regard. I don’t give people anything but my heart, but this isn’t just me. This is everybody in the Broken Dagger. Everybody.
We all want different things. What I don’t think any of us wants, however, is to be torn apart because of our convictions, to lose friends that we already have and some that we might have yet to make.
Let’s work together on this. If we don’t, then we’re asking for the Broken Dagger’s grave, and I personally don’t think anyone really, really wants that.
I don’t even know how this is supposed to happen, or what we’re supposed to do from here. I don’t think anybody does. What is true and what is real is that plenty of people have put plenty of hours into trying to think of the best resolution to get our friends back, to stay together as a whole, and if we don’t help each other, then we’re going to end up splitting apart anyway, regardless of what we want.
Personally? I don’t care what server we’re on. I don’t care what we have to do to make sure that our family stays together, but I want it to remain as whole. I don’t want anybody left behind, k-lined or not. Because that, to me, isn’t success. That isn’t winning. That is downright failure. That is losing. If even one person is left behind, then we are not doing our job as a family, and we are not doing our job as associates. Granted, it might take some time, but this is something that we all need to work together on, whether it’s as players or operators, whether it’s in being patient or taking action, whether it’s in sucking up our pride or remembering where our loyalties lie.
We need to reinforce each other. We need to be right there to pick each other up when we’re down. We need to be sure that nobody straggles behind, whether it’s their choice or not. We need to be shoulders, and friends, and cohorts. This anger between everybody is killing us. It’s not just your anger, it’s not just other people’s anger – it’s everybody’s anger.
This is not me as a player. This is not me as an operator. This is just Rance and his heart talking.
If you’ve made your decision, then I implore you to have patience in others, because everybody is trying to help. In this ordeal, I have seen a mass amount of love and loyalty from one player unto the next. In this tribulation, I have also seen a mass amount of dedication and care from operators, too.
Nobody doesn’t care. If you think that, I’m here to tell you that you are wrong.
This isn’t about sides. This isn’t about k-lines. This isn’t about admins. This is about us. This is about us, and nobody wants anybody else to get left behind, no matter what kind of angry or infuriated words might have been shared.
We are a family. It’s time to work together and resolve this shit as a family, no matter who we have to get back, no matter what we have to do. Because doing anything less, because tripping up our own family just to get what we want as individuals isn’t helping.
We are a family. We can do this. We can come out of this pile of shit shining like gold, if only everybody helps each other out and as long as we trust in one another.
Nobody gets split apart. Nobody gets left behind..
It’s time to look at what really matters. Let’s fix this. I’m begging you, as your friends, or even as just a bunch of words on a screen that you might not care about, or that you might love… This is nobody’s fault unless we make it their fault. I love you guys. I don't want to see this fall apart, and honestly, I don't think any of you do either.
Chins up. Smile. Be patient. Let's get this right the first time.
What happens in families? Families get angry at each other. Families exacerbate problems that could be fixed with a simple smile. Sometimes, families split up and never see each other ever again, and they bring with them these hatreds that will never be repaired. Do we want to hate the people with whom we grew, with whom we’ve spoken, with whom we’ve cried and loved and raged? No. Sometimes, though, that hatred will grow anyway.
I have family that I hate. I have sisters who, out of loyalty to my father, I will never speak to again because of what they see in him and what they have said about him, who I will never contact them to let them know where he is being buried, because I, the loyal and proud son, do not believe they deserve that. Until the day that I die, I am going to regret that, but that is where I am going to stand.
With family also comes a loyalty that is unbreakable. But now we see the irony – I am loyal to my father and defensive of how he has been treated by those very women he saw raised. Yet, in this, I am entirely disloyal to those same women I call my sisters.
I am not right in this. But I am founded.
You might wonder why I started out with this. This is because I want people, first and foremost, to know what family means to me. I know it doesn’t mean this just to me. Family means this to everybody. Regardless of whether we have been hurt, left behind, angered, we all have family, even if we haven’t discovered them yet. I want any single person to show me another who doesn’t really, in their heart, know the meaning of family, and I will eat every single one of these words.
Now for the topic of my post.
We are a family. Though we’re weren’t born from the same parents, the blood that runs in our veins is the writing that we share and the stories that we create. Sometimes we don’t get along. Hell, some of us really even hate each other, but we are still family. Sometimes we say things that we regret, but a lot of the time, those are the things that we need to get right out there and say for fear that we’re going to explode.
So maybe now is going to be one of those things.
The past few days have been extremely hard for everybody. I want to preface this by saying that I am writing this post not as a player, not as a newly returned op, but as a person. I think I told two people that I was going to write this. So if I regret it, I’m sorry, but I think it needs to be said. This is me talking, not anybody else, so take that as it is and point all your anger towards me if it offends you.
The facts: We lost three people – Liz, Dan, and Pauline – to k-lines several days ago, and whether or not these k-lines were proper, to me, irrelevant. Liz apologized to the administrators and returned. Angie, showing great loyalty to her friends, managed to barter Dan’s position back on the channel. Pauline, feeling insulted by what had happened to her and the friends she defended, does not feel that she needs to apologize for what she has done. I do not blame that. I would be downright pissed, too, and I am.
A lot of people are up in arms about this. A lot of people are insulted, afraid, insecure, as to what might happen to other players on our channel. In this, there have been a lot of fingers pointing. There have been a lot of people being angry at one another, hurting each other even though they do not mean to, saying things that otherwise, they might not commonly say. Right now, the server is split in two. There are still players in StarChat trying to work out their own feelings on everything. There are players in the replicas of the Broken Dagger rooms on the DarkMyst server that are duly upset, and have every right to be.
A lot of people think the operators aren’t making a move to do anything. I am here right now, to let everybody know how hard they are working. You might believe that, you might not, and I don’t expect anybody to! But I am right now typing this up even after having spent twelve hours out of my day discussing and discussing and arguing and hating and being argued with and despised by fellow operators as to what the proper course of action should be to see to it that our family can flourish and that our family can come back together and have the fun, the enjoyment, the usual quips, and even the hatred that we might have still had before. People are at each other’s throats. People who would not normally yell at each other are doing just this, and it’s getting ugly.
Right now, whether or not you want to think it, our channel is split right down the middle. Players, operators, people all have been doing their damndest to make sure that something is done about this. Some people have acted sooner. Some people have acted later. I, personally, promised several players a poll on the boards today without the necessary due input from fellow operators. Maybe I should apologize for that, maybe I shouldn’t – but at this point, I don’t really care.
The truth is, no matter what side you’re on – whether you’re happy on StarChat, whether you’re ready to move to DarkMyst, whether you’re an operator or just a player looking for a place to stay – you’re not happy about any of this. And if you are happy with it, then understand that others aren’t.
We create things together. Everybody wants a chance to speak about it, but with speaking comes listening and understanding. Operators, if you think the players aren’t listening, you’re wrong. Players, if you think the operators aren’t working on this, you’re wrong. I have never been as sure about many other things in my life, but what I do know, no matter who you are, is that you have the heart to be involved in this and have an opinion. Everybody is putting their all into this, whether they’re insulted or they’re trying to be positive or they're furious.
You guys all know me, and you know I’m not a bullshitter in any regard. I don’t give people anything but my heart, but this isn’t just me. This is everybody in the Broken Dagger. Everybody.
We all want different things. What I don’t think any of us wants, however, is to be torn apart because of our convictions, to lose friends that we already have and some that we might have yet to make.
Let’s work together on this. If we don’t, then we’re asking for the Broken Dagger’s grave, and I personally don’t think anyone really, really wants that.
I don’t even know how this is supposed to happen, or what we’re supposed to do from here. I don’t think anybody does. What is true and what is real is that plenty of people have put plenty of hours into trying to think of the best resolution to get our friends back, to stay together as a whole, and if we don’t help each other, then we’re going to end up splitting apart anyway, regardless of what we want.
Personally? I don’t care what server we’re on. I don’t care what we have to do to make sure that our family stays together, but I want it to remain as whole. I don’t want anybody left behind, k-lined or not. Because that, to me, isn’t success. That isn’t winning. That is downright failure. That is losing. If even one person is left behind, then we are not doing our job as a family, and we are not doing our job as associates. Granted, it might take some time, but this is something that we all need to work together on, whether it’s as players or operators, whether it’s in being patient or taking action, whether it’s in sucking up our pride or remembering where our loyalties lie.
We need to reinforce each other. We need to be right there to pick each other up when we’re down. We need to be sure that nobody straggles behind, whether it’s their choice or not. We need to be shoulders, and friends, and cohorts. This anger between everybody is killing us. It’s not just your anger, it’s not just other people’s anger – it’s everybody’s anger.
This is not me as a player. This is not me as an operator. This is just Rance and his heart talking.
If you’ve made your decision, then I implore you to have patience in others, because everybody is trying to help. In this ordeal, I have seen a mass amount of love and loyalty from one player unto the next. In this tribulation, I have also seen a mass amount of dedication and care from operators, too.
Nobody doesn’t care. If you think that, I’m here to tell you that you are wrong.
This isn’t about sides. This isn’t about k-lines. This isn’t about admins. This is about us. This is about us, and nobody wants anybody else to get left behind, no matter what kind of angry or infuriated words might have been shared.
We are a family. It’s time to work together and resolve this shit as a family, no matter who we have to get back, no matter what we have to do. Because doing anything less, because tripping up our own family just to get what we want as individuals isn’t helping.
We are a family. We can do this. We can come out of this pile of shit shining like gold, if only everybody helps each other out and as long as we trust in one another.
Nobody gets split apart. Nobody gets left behind..
It’s time to look at what really matters. Let’s fix this. I’m begging you, as your friends, or even as just a bunch of words on a screen that you might not care about, or that you might love… This is nobody’s fault unless we make it their fault. I love you guys. I don't want to see this fall apart, and honestly, I don't think any of you do either.
Chins up. Smile. Be patient. Let's get this right the first time.
Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:28 pm
I wrote this earlier for the ops, and since Rance posted something that was so similar, I'm going to add this for everyone.
------
If people seriously feel as strongly as they do -- a server move will solve nothing. Yet.
Families have communication issues. Anybody who is married (or, hell, lives with more than one person) knows this. But you don't scream DIVORCE (or SPLIT, in our case) when things get thorny. You sit down at the kitchen table and hash it out. You get truthful, you get talking, and you compromise. If you get hurt, you don't run out the door. That's not the way a family works.
Mercy said we must stand up for our players regardless; and we are. We are fighting to get Pauline back, and fighting to reunite our family. All of us. With all opinions, and there are more than two sides in this by now. And we're going to. Patience. Sometimes you fight by not fighting. Sometimes, like Agnieszka's slowly learning, you stand up for your friends in a way that isn't vocal, and that is even more effective -- as this could have been with some time and elbow grease -- than quick panaceas. Quite honestly, we are in enough turmoil right now that we do not need the addition of a server move that could completely consign the channel to the craziness.
I think we can revisit this question when we're all feeling better about where we're standing and what the other people of the other opinions (not sides; we CANNOT think 'us' vs. 'them') think.
We've been talking about how we're a family for days. Let's be one. We're all ready to talk, but for that we all have to be in the same house. Maybe a server move might the right solution for us in the future, but right now let's be perfectly honest: let's get Pauline back, and then fix the foundation before we sell the house, yes? Or, else, all of our problems will follow us, and all of this pain will have been for NOTHING.
(And there are drow to slay! Woot!)
------
If people seriously feel as strongly as they do -- a server move will solve nothing. Yet.
Families have communication issues. Anybody who is married (or, hell, lives with more than one person) knows this. But you don't scream DIVORCE (or SPLIT, in our case) when things get thorny. You sit down at the kitchen table and hash it out. You get truthful, you get talking, and you compromise. If you get hurt, you don't run out the door. That's not the way a family works.
Mercy said we must stand up for our players regardless; and we are. We are fighting to get Pauline back, and fighting to reunite our family. All of us. With all opinions, and there are more than two sides in this by now. And we're going to. Patience. Sometimes you fight by not fighting. Sometimes, like Agnieszka's slowly learning, you stand up for your friends in a way that isn't vocal, and that is even more effective -- as this could have been with some time and elbow grease -- than quick panaceas. Quite honestly, we are in enough turmoil right now that we do not need the addition of a server move that could completely consign the channel to the craziness.
I think we can revisit this question when we're all feeling better about where we're standing and what the other people of the other opinions (not sides; we CANNOT think 'us' vs. 'them') think.
We've been talking about how we're a family for days. Let's be one. We're all ready to talk, but for that we all have to be in the same house. Maybe a server move might the right solution for us in the future, but right now let's be perfectly honest: let's get Pauline back, and then fix the foundation before we sell the house, yes? Or, else, all of our problems will follow us, and all of this pain will have been for NOTHING.
(And there are drow to slay! Woot!)
Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:34 pm
I would also like to propose to the masses that we use this not as a debate thread, but to simply state our feelings once for the rest of the channel to see, so everyone can learn a little more about where we're all standing.
Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:47 pm
Alot of us worked really hard today to explain our feelings. We came up with a great plan, and *awesome* plan, to give players a say on a really important matter. I left that meeting feeling incredibly optimistic that the ball was in motion. Things were *fixed* at that meeting, and I can't express enough how amazing and supportive and agreeable some of the ops were there.
Then I came back online to find out that all that talking and planning was - in essence - ignored, written off, and all of our ideas were disregarded or slapped down for a single asinine reason, masked - as everything has been, lately - by a thick layer of caramel coating. In fact, they specifically waited for us, the players, to leave before speaking up.
I'm not going to point fingers. Those who worked to give the players choices know who they were. Those who's motives I can't even begin to fathom know exactly who *they* are.
I can tell you right now that I have known only one other person who seemed so dead-set on putting themselves first before their players. It ended with TWO massive splits, ruined friendships, and devistated feelings that continue to this day.
People have WORKED to prevent this from happening. They've done their damndest to stop it. But they, and I, are tired of one idea after another being shot down, and being treated like we don't know what's best for *us*, the players. I'm tired of waiting for people to get over their egos, or misunderstandings, or whatever the hell has been going horribly wrong for months now.
I'm honestly not sure what can be done to fix this latest in a long line of hush-ups, cover-ups, and blatant disregard of our intelligence. I'm tired of being told that things are none of my business - of having the truth hidden, censored, packaged, stamped, and sent out like boxes of candy.
I'm not sure what I'll do at this point. I honestly think that, not *only* has the ball been dropped, but it was purposefully punted down a fathomless hole and ripped apart by, I don't know, eyeless fish-dragons or something. After so much lying, I'm not ready to trust certain of those who are, as they wished, unchallengeably in charge. And likely will never do so again.
And that is where I stand, at this moment.
Then I came back online to find out that all that talking and planning was - in essence - ignored, written off, and all of our ideas were disregarded or slapped down for a single asinine reason, masked - as everything has been, lately - by a thick layer of caramel coating. In fact, they specifically waited for us, the players, to leave before speaking up.
I'm not going to point fingers. Those who worked to give the players choices know who they were. Those who's motives I can't even begin to fathom know exactly who *they* are.
I can tell you right now that I have known only one other person who seemed so dead-set on putting themselves first before their players. It ended with TWO massive splits, ruined friendships, and devistated feelings that continue to this day.
People have WORKED to prevent this from happening. They've done their damndest to stop it. But they, and I, are tired of one idea after another being shot down, and being treated like we don't know what's best for *us*, the players. I'm tired of waiting for people to get over their egos, or misunderstandings, or whatever the hell has been going horribly wrong for months now.
I'm honestly not sure what can be done to fix this latest in a long line of hush-ups, cover-ups, and blatant disregard of our intelligence. I'm tired of being told that things are none of my business - of having the truth hidden, censored, packaged, stamped, and sent out like boxes of candy.
I'm not sure what I'll do at this point. I honestly think that, not *only* has the ball been dropped, but it was purposefully punted down a fathomless hole and ripped apart by, I don't know, eyeless fish-dragons or something. After so much lying, I'm not ready to trust certain of those who are, as they wished, unchallengeably in charge. And likely will never do so again.
And that is where I stand, at this moment.
Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:08 pm
Just a few considerations from my end of things. I'm not meaning to brag on any points. I'm certainly not trying to point fingers.
For one: I have to say I'm not one blaming the ops. I used to op here. I helped run another channel on Sorcery, I tried for op status in the BlkDragon on Sorcery, and I ran my own room on Blizzard's Battle.net for about two years. If there's one thing I've seen over the years, it's that ops worth their salt really DO care about their rooms.
That caring is what I see here. I don't feel that the operators in the BD are doing anything to heighten this problem.
For two: I can understand the issue of feeling like there's nothing to apologize for. I can understand the whole concept of coming across as a brown-nosing sycophant just because of someone(s) with a power trip. However, we cannot guarantee that such a similar arrangement would not exist on another server, and then the move is for naught. We cannot let a difference in opinions, perceived or real, send us packing with an "I'll take my toys and play somewhere else" attitude. *That* does nothing in case of this same circumstance happening elsewhere.
For three: the problems thought to be facing this channel are not so much internal as external. If there truly is a difference in opinions between the BD core and ops vs. the Starchat heads, then we should be looking at what can be done to resolve the problem quickly, peacefully, and painlessly--actions I feel, knowing what I know of the folks in charge here, are likely already happening.
I'm not saying hostility or brazen forcefulness is the way. I'm saying we, the occupants of the Dagger and affiliated rooms, should stay the course, acting on events by continuing to pursue the logical, optimal solution of getting everyone back in here and settled.
Assuming that there are ulterior motives or that the Almighty Starchat People have it out for us or some such no matter what we do because of some abstract quality about us. . . . I've gotten that attitude in the classroom twice before in the words of "Mr. Pittman's racist!" or "Mr. Pittman, why you be hatin'?" Assuming the existence of such motives or disgust or hatred leads to nothing but hositilities with little or no rational thought. It merely ends up as a cop out that doesn't deal with the real issues at hand or address how to fix them.
I feel everything that can be done IS being done. Without knowing any evidence to the contrary, I have no reason to not support this room, these ops, or this server, and I hope the rest of the channel sees it the same.
Thank you.
For one: I have to say I'm not one blaming the ops. I used to op here. I helped run another channel on Sorcery, I tried for op status in the BlkDragon on Sorcery, and I ran my own room on Blizzard's Battle.net for about two years. If there's one thing I've seen over the years, it's that ops worth their salt really DO care about their rooms.
That caring is what I see here. I don't feel that the operators in the BD are doing anything to heighten this problem.
For two: I can understand the issue of feeling like there's nothing to apologize for. I can understand the whole concept of coming across as a brown-nosing sycophant just because of someone(s) with a power trip. However, we cannot guarantee that such a similar arrangement would not exist on another server, and then the move is for naught. We cannot let a difference in opinions, perceived or real, send us packing with an "I'll take my toys and play somewhere else" attitude. *That* does nothing in case of this same circumstance happening elsewhere.
For three: the problems thought to be facing this channel are not so much internal as external. If there truly is a difference in opinions between the BD core and ops vs. the Starchat heads, then we should be looking at what can be done to resolve the problem quickly, peacefully, and painlessly--actions I feel, knowing what I know of the folks in charge here, are likely already happening.
I'm not saying hostility or brazen forcefulness is the way. I'm saying we, the occupants of the Dagger and affiliated rooms, should stay the course, acting on events by continuing to pursue the logical, optimal solution of getting everyone back in here and settled.
Assuming that there are ulterior motives or that the Almighty Starchat People have it out for us or some such no matter what we do because of some abstract quality about us. . . . I've gotten that attitude in the classroom twice before in the words of "Mr. Pittman's racist!" or "Mr. Pittman, why you be hatin'?" Assuming the existence of such motives or disgust or hatred leads to nothing but hositilities with little or no rational thought. It merely ends up as a cop out that doesn't deal with the real issues at hand or address how to fix them.
I feel everything that can be done IS being done. Without knowing any evidence to the contrary, I have no reason to not support this room, these ops, or this server, and I hope the rest of the channel sees it the same.
Thank you.
Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:54 pm
My personal feelings are that everyone should see the logs. I have wanted to post them publically for a while now, but haven't because I am afraid of the repercussions that they might have on the people that -did- get their k-lines removed. I don't want to undermine all the work and effort that went in.
So.. before I post the link publically and destroy what they have accomplished, I will only request that if you are a concerned player and you have -not- seen the logs.. please ask someone to give you the link. All of the ops have it, as well as many of the players. I want people to understand what I'm standing up for.
So.. before I post the link publically and destroy what they have accomplished, I will only request that if you are a concerned player and you have -not- seen the logs.. please ask someone to give you the link. All of the ops have it, as well as many of the players. I want people to understand what I'm standing up for.
Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:45 am
I have nothing to add. I don't like drama and avoid it like the plague. I just wanna play somewhere fun and be with my friends. I hope that can happen again.
My two bits... And then some.
Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:46 am
Alright. I've kept quiet about this whole issue since we've had enough belligerence going around that I certainly didn't need to add to it. Yes, over the past two days I've spouted a lot of jargon and put forth a number of arguments to make my case as to my decisions and feelings on this particular matter. Though, during this time I've noticed a few things that give me pause.
First and foremost, my motives are plain. I don't hide my beliefs or thoughts and, as anyone who's known me for any amount of time here on IRC or out in the real world, I am *not* afraid to speak my mind or state my opinion. I argue. That's what I do. Only because I like to get to the truth of the matter, not to sway opinion or change other's minds. Though, after talking to different people (both players and ops), I'm seeing something underlining here.
All is not well in the kingdom, it seems.
What started out as a small incident(s) has suddenly ballooned out of control. I'm not sure what caused it. But I am seriously sensing that there's more to just k-lines and hot tempers here about a wrong that was committed against three of our players.
As stated before in Rance's earlier post (that sincerely got me verclempt) about family... Yes, family fight and argue and hate and yell and the gnashing of teeth and the hoo-hoo and the haa-haa... But to make a schism occur so badly like this, there has to be something more serious than simple anger or lack of patience going on here. I don't know what it is, since I don't generally involve myself in some more of the personal aspects between different players. Perhaps I should in the future?
Personally... I'm here for one person. That is Pauline. Originally it was for Dan as well, but Pauline is still being wronged here. I read the logs of the conversations with the IRCops over on Starchat and with the admin there and all I can say is; if it were me? I'd tell 'em to go straight to hell, then give 'em a map and compass, because there's *NO* way in God's green Earth that I'd send some brown-nosing apology to people like *that*. I don't care how 'nice' they really are once you get past the crunchy outer layer.
You don't talk to or treat Bill J. Kehler like that and expect him to come crawling back with some limp-wristed apology in hand. I don't allow it in the work place. I don't allow it in my home. I don't allow it with my friends. And I certainly don't allow it on some IRC server.
Because of how I stand on things like that, I don't expect Pauline to do the same either. And because of that... Where she stays, I stay. Simple as that. End of story. Cue the fat-lady, it's over.
Now, that being said, I don't expect everyone to agree with me. Hardly anyone does <eg>, but what I do feel is that I should voice my opinion and feelings so that people know where I stand. Over the past few months (or in some cases years) I've gotten to know a few of you and liked what I saw, so I call you friend. Others, I'd like to get to know better and then like what I see, so I call you friend.... And hopefully I can take that extra step and start referring ya'll as 'family', then I'll get off my butt and save some money so I can actually meet some of your extraordinary and wonderful and beautiful people.
I've met many people online whom I've started to cherish, only to watch as they fade away and exist now only in my heart and mind. Either because of life itself, or because of my innate ability to close people off from me and not let them near and then chase 'em away when the try to get close to me, or whatever reason. I do *not* want to see that happen here 'cause there are so many of you I'd like to get to know better.
Damnit! Tears are being shed, people are crying, people's hearts are breaking.... Damn it!
Gah, I'm rambling, so I'll stop here.
Not sure what I intended with this, or what point I was going to make, so if I sound like a crazy man, so be it. Anyhow....
Umm... Stay frosty.
First and foremost, my motives are plain. I don't hide my beliefs or thoughts and, as anyone who's known me for any amount of time here on IRC or out in the real world, I am *not* afraid to speak my mind or state my opinion. I argue. That's what I do. Only because I like to get to the truth of the matter, not to sway opinion or change other's minds. Though, after talking to different people (both players and ops), I'm seeing something underlining here.
All is not well in the kingdom, it seems.
What started out as a small incident(s) has suddenly ballooned out of control. I'm not sure what caused it. But I am seriously sensing that there's more to just k-lines and hot tempers here about a wrong that was committed against three of our players.
As stated before in Rance's earlier post (that sincerely got me verclempt) about family... Yes, family fight and argue and hate and yell and the gnashing of teeth and the hoo-hoo and the haa-haa... But to make a schism occur so badly like this, there has to be something more serious than simple anger or lack of patience going on here. I don't know what it is, since I don't generally involve myself in some more of the personal aspects between different players. Perhaps I should in the future?
Personally... I'm here for one person. That is Pauline. Originally it was for Dan as well, but Pauline is still being wronged here. I read the logs of the conversations with the IRCops over on Starchat and with the admin there and all I can say is; if it were me? I'd tell 'em to go straight to hell, then give 'em a map and compass, because there's *NO* way in God's green Earth that I'd send some brown-nosing apology to people like *that*. I don't care how 'nice' they really are once you get past the crunchy outer layer.
You don't talk to or treat Bill J. Kehler like that and expect him to come crawling back with some limp-wristed apology in hand. I don't allow it in the work place. I don't allow it in my home. I don't allow it with my friends. And I certainly don't allow it on some IRC server.
Because of how I stand on things like that, I don't expect Pauline to do the same either. And because of that... Where she stays, I stay. Simple as that. End of story. Cue the fat-lady, it's over.
Now, that being said, I don't expect everyone to agree with me. Hardly anyone does <eg>, but what I do feel is that I should voice my opinion and feelings so that people know where I stand. Over the past few months (or in some cases years) I've gotten to know a few of you and liked what I saw, so I call you friend. Others, I'd like to get to know better and then like what I see, so I call you friend.... And hopefully I can take that extra step and start referring ya'll as 'family', then I'll get off my butt and save some money so I can actually meet some of your extraordinary and wonderful and beautiful people.
I've met many people online whom I've started to cherish, only to watch as they fade away and exist now only in my heart and mind. Either because of life itself, or because of my innate ability to close people off from me and not let them near and then chase 'em away when the try to get close to me, or whatever reason. I do *not* want to see that happen here 'cause there are so many of you I'd like to get to know better.
Damnit! Tears are being shed, people are crying, people's hearts are breaking.... Damn it!
Gah, I'm rambling, so I'll stop here.
Not sure what I intended with this, or what point I was going to make, so if I sound like a crazy man, so be it. Anyhow....
Umm... Stay frosty.
Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:25 am
I was there when the k-lines happened and I've read the logs that Pauline has. Now, it's no secret that Pauline and I are friends IRL--she's the reason I'm here, after all--but regardless of that, even if it was someone I didn't know in her position, I would feel they had been wronged terribly. I've heard things like this aren't that uncommon when... that particular person... is involved, and the logs seem to imply that as well... and I also get the impression that we, the people who make up Broken Dagger, need to hide from... that person's attention or have her wrath rain down upon us. This might not be the case, but it's how it seems to me. And since this is all about my opinions, well... there it is.
And as it is, I feel like cowering is no way to live. I was terribly upset by Pauline's k-line, and in addition to getting angy, I became depressed by the responses to everyone trying to help her. I personally do not even want to play on StarChat any more because I get that upset about it. It was an out-and-out injustice and waiting for "due process" isn't going to repair anyone's feelings. Sure, the situation might be remedied, we might get Pauline's k-line removed, but in the end, so what? The fact remains that it happened, it happened for no good reason and there's nothing that will prevent it from happening again if we stay on this server.
I stand completely behind Pauline not wanting to appologize. In addition for not appologizing because -she- was wronged, I wouldn't want to appologize to a person who can abuse their power and then EXPECT an appology. That is not the sort of person I want to have anything to do with. That is the sort of person I would quit a job to get away from, the sort of person I would break my lease to get away from. In that case, what's so hard with changing a server? "The next admin might be exactly the same way" is the same sort of arguement as "don't go outside, something might drop out of the sky and kill you!" I'm sure in the end it doesn't matter where we set up shop, but I'd rather do it somewhere I feel confident I can speak my mind and ask reasonable questions without the fear of eviction. There are hundreds if not thousands of places to operate from, just like there are thousands of people you can have for landlords...
Regardless, like I said before, I'm Pauline's friend and I support her. I'm going to be wherever she goes because I wouldn't have been here without her in the first place.
And as it is, I feel like cowering is no way to live. I was terribly upset by Pauline's k-line, and in addition to getting angy, I became depressed by the responses to everyone trying to help her. I personally do not even want to play on StarChat any more because I get that upset about it. It was an out-and-out injustice and waiting for "due process" isn't going to repair anyone's feelings. Sure, the situation might be remedied, we might get Pauline's k-line removed, but in the end, so what? The fact remains that it happened, it happened for no good reason and there's nothing that will prevent it from happening again if we stay on this server.
I stand completely behind Pauline not wanting to appologize. In addition for not appologizing because -she- was wronged, I wouldn't want to appologize to a person who can abuse their power and then EXPECT an appology. That is not the sort of person I want to have anything to do with. That is the sort of person I would quit a job to get away from, the sort of person I would break my lease to get away from. In that case, what's so hard with changing a server? "The next admin might be exactly the same way" is the same sort of arguement as "don't go outside, something might drop out of the sky and kill you!" I'm sure in the end it doesn't matter where we set up shop, but I'd rather do it somewhere I feel confident I can speak my mind and ask reasonable questions without the fear of eviction. There are hundreds if not thousands of places to operate from, just like there are thousands of people you can have for landlords...
Regardless, like I said before, I'm Pauline's friend and I support her. I'm going to be wherever she goes because I wouldn't have been here without her in the first place.
Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:01 pm
I have read all these thoughts here on this thread, and I am a jumble of emotions here. I am frustrated beyond belief. Mostly, because of what Billy has already stated. She and I went in, asked questions, answered questions, gave opinions, and offered advice from, what I feel, represented a good portion of the players, not to mention ourselves. And, do you believe, that I actually walked out of that meeting feeling positive about things? I felt like I had accomplished something! I felt as though some how, some way, somewhere along the course of the discussion, that I made a -difference-, that what Billy and I said, actually -mattered-. I don't need to go into detail about what happened after we left. It's a known fact, now. But know this: I AM ANGRY. I AM HURT. I AM ASTONISHED. I AM MISTRUSTING. I AM IN DISBELIEF. I cannot BELIEVE what is going on. As Rance has said: "We are family". I THOUGHT that. I BELIEVED THAT. It's why I did what I did, in my communications with jinxi regarding the three players and the k-lines. NO ONE has said ANYthing to make me feel as though they are upset by my actions, -however-... the tension I felt from some of the ops team was undeniable. I -knew- that some were unhappy about my actions, and not listening to the recommended, "Let us handle it...we're doing all we can..." I could -feel- it. Do you know why I continued in my endeavors anyways? Because the IRCops that I spoke with gave me the distinct impression that NO ONE ELSE had ever said a WORD to them about these matters. That much is evident in the logs, by their requests of information in regards to what happened Sunday night. I am having a very hard time here trying to understand the reasoning of the ops team, and their comments, recommendations, and decisions. I'm not going to buy "oh...jinxi just needed some time before we started taking this up with her..." NO. People were wronged, and I DAMNED sure wasn't going to sit around and wait for the ill-tempered, almighty-on-the-pedestal, BRATCHILD of an admin to "calm down". What for?? I had no reason to appease her. No wrong was done, and no offering of "calming down time" was going to be given her by me.
I don't feel that it is just to have anyone making decisions for the BD Group, when they don't know half or more of the players. I don't feel that it is right to wait until players leave the ops room and -then- discuss the -real- feelings on the matter. (kudos to Billy's caramel-coated comment) I felt used, manipulated and deceived upon news of the "change of minds", so-to-speak, after Billy and I left the meeting. As I made reference to earlier, I was practically -beaming- when I left the discussion. Only to have high hopes and confidence alike, flushed down the sewer, right along with my trust. Granted, perhaps some my facts here maybe be a little out of order, or even not -exactly- the way things happened, but a pile of shit is a pile of shit, whether or not it be from a mouse or a whale's ass.
I will be found on the DarkMyst server, as most already know, and any questions, comments or corrections can be directed to me there. I may post again on this thread another time with more to add, change or even correct, but, again, as some others here have stated, right now, these are my feelings. Thank you for taking the time to listen, those you who have, and for all those who have supported the PLAYERS through all of this, a HUGE THANK YOU!!!
I don't feel that it is just to have anyone making decisions for the BD Group, when they don't know half or more of the players. I don't feel that it is right to wait until players leave the ops room and -then- discuss the -real- feelings on the matter. (kudos to Billy's caramel-coated comment) I felt used, manipulated and deceived upon news of the "change of minds", so-to-speak, after Billy and I left the meeting. As I made reference to earlier, I was practically -beaming- when I left the discussion. Only to have high hopes and confidence alike, flushed down the sewer, right along with my trust. Granted, perhaps some my facts here maybe be a little out of order, or even not -exactly- the way things happened, but a pile of shit is a pile of shit, whether or not it be from a mouse or a whale's ass.
I will be found on the DarkMyst server, as most already know, and any questions, comments or corrections can be directed to me there. I may post again on this thread another time with more to add, change or even correct, but, again, as some others here have stated, right now, these are my feelings. Thank you for taking the time to listen, those you who have, and for all those who have supported the PLAYERS through all of this, a HUGE THANK YOU!!!
Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:22 pm
I suppose I should say something. Weigh in on the issue somehow, since I've discussed it a bit with a few of you.
So, here goes:
You're all really over-reacting. This is silly. First of all, it's ridiculous that you're willing to leave your friends on Starchat and go to Darkmyst to play, regardless of whether or not they come, because you're upset with the IRCops. Which one is more important? The IRCops whom you almost never see, or whether or not you're playing with your friends?
Secondly, we're playing. This is a game. We're roleplaying. This isn't a worthy cause for such uproar. This isn't worth the effort. This is a free diversion that we choose to undertake. We don't roleplay because of the server, we roleplay because of our friends. And you're leaving those behind by moving servers. Devote your energy to a cause that needs supporting - this crusade isn't going to change anything. The simple truth is, our leaving won't hurt the server at all, it won't hurt the IRCops at all, and it's a hell of a lot of inconvenience for those of us who have reasons to want to stay on this server.
Third, listen to you. You're turning on each other, forming sides, over something the IRCops probably don't care all that much about. It's turning player against player to fight this 'injustice,' when really we all want the same thing - to roleplay and have fun. Is it really worth alienating each other so you can make some 'point' by leaving Starchat? Seriously?
Fourth, let me reiterate - this. Is. Not. Worth. The. Energy. We're bickering amongst ourselves about whether or not to switch servers - what server we're on is not going to change anything, except for how WE think of each OTHER. And do we really want to strain relationships between each other so that we can click Darkmyst instead of Starchat? Starchat does NOT receive money or anything for every connection to it, so our 'protest' means nothing.
What people are missing here is that, like it or not, Liz DID break a rule. It was an obscure rule. It was an accident. It was a misunderstanding. And you know what? Liz cleared her shit up with the IRCops and is back.
Dan also broke a rule by talking that way to the IRCops. Respect above all else, remember? He apologized, and no matter how 'right' he feels he was, his attitude was out of place and did not help matters along. He's back on.
Pauline is choosing to protest, and for all the reasons I already listed above, I think it's a silly protest. What is on the line here? Pride? Principle? Who are you teaching a lesson? You're merely ruining the roleplay environment we all know and love so you can feel 'justified' and 'right.' Swallow your pride, people, and pay less attention to being 'right' and more attention to maintaining the strong roleplay community we all love.
I'm sorry to say, the ops are right. Moving is a pointless gesture, is more trouble than it's worth, and PAULINE DIDN'T WANT THIS UPROAR TO BEGIN WITH. Her protest was her choice, and I disagree with her choice - but it affected her only. Now you're letting it tear apart the whole channel, and I'm pretty sure that's not what she wanted. The IRCops weren't unreasonable - they let Dan and Liz back, because they swallowed their pride and decided RPing with all of us was more important than a personal crusade against what they call tyranny.
Tyranny? On Starchat? Give me a break. North Korea is ruled by a tyrant. Starchat is ruled by a series of IRCops who maybe were out of place this once, but you know what? We're not perfect either, and an apology should not be too much for any one person to handle.
To those of you who insist on leaving, I suppose it's safe to assume that some of us won't be seeing each other again, because I -can't- connect to Darkmyst. So, farewell. Is it worth it?
Don't forget the all of us are players, regardless of a stupid @. No one here is more righteous than the other.
Respectfully, but rather dumbfoundedly yours,
Jesse
So, here goes:
You're all really over-reacting. This is silly. First of all, it's ridiculous that you're willing to leave your friends on Starchat and go to Darkmyst to play, regardless of whether or not they come, because you're upset with the IRCops. Which one is more important? The IRCops whom you almost never see, or whether or not you're playing with your friends?
Secondly, we're playing. This is a game. We're roleplaying. This isn't a worthy cause for such uproar. This isn't worth the effort. This is a free diversion that we choose to undertake. We don't roleplay because of the server, we roleplay because of our friends. And you're leaving those behind by moving servers. Devote your energy to a cause that needs supporting - this crusade isn't going to change anything. The simple truth is, our leaving won't hurt the server at all, it won't hurt the IRCops at all, and it's a hell of a lot of inconvenience for those of us who have reasons to want to stay on this server.
Third, listen to you. You're turning on each other, forming sides, over something the IRCops probably don't care all that much about. It's turning player against player to fight this 'injustice,' when really we all want the same thing - to roleplay and have fun. Is it really worth alienating each other so you can make some 'point' by leaving Starchat? Seriously?
Fourth, let me reiterate - this. Is. Not. Worth. The. Energy. We're bickering amongst ourselves about whether or not to switch servers - what server we're on is not going to change anything, except for how WE think of each OTHER. And do we really want to strain relationships between each other so that we can click Darkmyst instead of Starchat? Starchat does NOT receive money or anything for every connection to it, so our 'protest' means nothing.
What people are missing here is that, like it or not, Liz DID break a rule. It was an obscure rule. It was an accident. It was a misunderstanding. And you know what? Liz cleared her shit up with the IRCops and is back.
Dan also broke a rule by talking that way to the IRCops. Respect above all else, remember? He apologized, and no matter how 'right' he feels he was, his attitude was out of place and did not help matters along. He's back on.
Pauline is choosing to protest, and for all the reasons I already listed above, I think it's a silly protest. What is on the line here? Pride? Principle? Who are you teaching a lesson? You're merely ruining the roleplay environment we all know and love so you can feel 'justified' and 'right.' Swallow your pride, people, and pay less attention to being 'right' and more attention to maintaining the strong roleplay community we all love.
I'm sorry to say, the ops are right. Moving is a pointless gesture, is more trouble than it's worth, and PAULINE DIDN'T WANT THIS UPROAR TO BEGIN WITH. Her protest was her choice, and I disagree with her choice - but it affected her only. Now you're letting it tear apart the whole channel, and I'm pretty sure that's not what she wanted. The IRCops weren't unreasonable - they let Dan and Liz back, because they swallowed their pride and decided RPing with all of us was more important than a personal crusade against what they call tyranny.
Tyranny? On Starchat? Give me a break. North Korea is ruled by a tyrant. Starchat is ruled by a series of IRCops who maybe were out of place this once, but you know what? We're not perfect either, and an apology should not be too much for any one person to handle.
To those of you who insist on leaving, I suppose it's safe to assume that some of us won't be seeing each other again, because I -can't- connect to Darkmyst. So, farewell. Is it worth it?
Don't forget the all of us are players, regardless of a stupid @. No one here is more righteous than the other.
Respectfully, but rather dumbfoundedly yours,
Jesse
Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:44 pm
I'm with Tebrin here. I know this is IRC, and that most IRC arguments get ridiculously huge with people running around flailing their arms, screaming about how THINGS ARE UNFAIR, but...do we have to overreact like people expect people on IRC to do? This is a huge, giant issue over ONE PERSON. Additionally, this ONE PERSON could probably be on starchat right now ,if it wasn't for the fact that she can't suck in her pride for even a moment, to even falsely apologize. Those who have apologized have come back. If someone wants to protest, they can. But its ridiculous to start fragmenting and pointing fingers because of it. I don't really care about this argument, as I could care less about most of the people in this channel, but seeing all of this bickering is annoying, and it upsets the people I do care about.
Now seriously. Are you guys going to let ONE incident over ONE person split up all the work that's gone into this channel and its setting up? Because trust me, let this argument split things up, and things will change. I've seen it with enough channels before.
Now seriously. Are you guys going to let ONE incident over ONE person split up all the work that's gone into this channel and its setting up? Because trust me, let this argument split things up, and things will change. I've seen it with enough channels before.
Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:06 pm
You guys are all bringing up some valid points, and I'm glad that you guys are honestly comfortable enough to talk and express your feelings on this. And I personally thank you for that, from the bottom of my heart!
What I do want to kindly clarify, though, is for us to remember that it's important to respect each other's feelings in a situation like this -- feelings are already inflamed and and people are already enraged. I am not asking you to censor what you say at all -- y'all know me and know that I'm not about censoring a single thing. I think that comes from the wanna-be rebellious musician in me. Everybody has points, whether or not they have spoken them yet or not.
K, thank you for your optimism. It's highly appreciated and intensely honest.
Billy, thank you for your honesty as well, and your straightforward feelings. Thank you, too, for getting the ball rolling!
Paul, your patience and your constant adherence to look at things from all sides!
Pauline, thank you for standing up for what you believe in and your own personal standards. I do highly respect that, in many, many regards.
Nessa, I am hugely in debt for your simplicity and the strong expression you make through it. Sometimes, even a small sentence can say a thousand things.
Bill, thank you for being you and being straightforward. Though you might have thought at the end that you didn't know what you were saying, you showed a huge amount of resolve in saying exactly what you feel.
Laurie, thank you for showing dedication to your friends and to those you love. I personally hold that in high regard, and I hope a lot of other people do, too.
Angie, thank you for saying what you say because it is what you feel, and for being brutally honest. You are unafraid to express exactly what it is that's on your mind, and that does honestly go for a lot.
Jesse, thank you for taking stock in this and also looking at things, in your best ability, from every side as you've seen it presented.
MintyIgnas, many thanks for expressing your own feelings and coming forth with exactly what was on your chest and mind to say.
I really honestly do appreciate, and I hope so does everyone else, the fact that you guys are discussing this. I know this is honestly really upsetting, frustrating, and angering. I know that people are defending themselves, their friends, and their place to roleplay.
We -- and I'm talking not just about the ops, but about the players, and the Broken Dagger as a whole -- are really, really trying to figure out the best way out of this, and you guys by expressing what you say are doing a huge amount just to bring things out on the open and bringing your feelings to the table.
I thank you for that. I thank you for taking the time to write a few words or a lot about something that is passionate to you, no matter where you stand.
Everybody is trying, and here's to hoping people know at least that.
What I do want to kindly clarify, though, is for us to remember that it's important to respect each other's feelings in a situation like this -- feelings are already inflamed and and people are already enraged. I am not asking you to censor what you say at all -- y'all know me and know that I'm not about censoring a single thing. I think that comes from the wanna-be rebellious musician in me. Everybody has points, whether or not they have spoken them yet or not.
K, thank you for your optimism.
It's highly appreciated and intensely honest.
Billy, thank you for your honesty as well, and your straightforward feelings. Thank you, too, for getting the ball rolling!
Paul, your patience and your constant adherence to look at things from all sides!
Pauline, thank you for standing up for what you believe in and your own personal standards. I do highly respect that, in many, many regards.
Nessa, I am hugely in debt for your simplicity and the strong expression you make through it. Sometimes, even a small sentence can say a thousand things.
Bill, thank you for being you and being straightforward. Though you might have thought at the end that you didn't know what you were saying, you showed a huge amount of resolve in saying exactly what you feel.
Laurie, thank you for showing dedication to your friends and to those you love. I personally hold that in high regard, and I hope a lot of other people do, too.
Angie, thank you for saying what you say because it is what you feel, and for being brutally honest. You are unafraid to express exactly what it is that's on your mind, and that does honestly go for a lot.
Jesse, thank you for taking stock in this and also looking at things, in your best ability, from every side as you've seen it presented.
MintyIgnas, many thanks for expressing your own feelings and coming forth with exactly what was on your chest and mind to say.
I really honestly do appreciate, and I hope so does everyone else, the fact that you guys are discussing this. I know this is honestly really upsetting, frustrating, and angering. I know that people are defending themselves, their friends, and their place to roleplay.
We -- and I'm talking not just about the ops, but about the players, and the Broken Dagger as a whole -- are really, really trying to figure out the best way out of this, and you guys by expressing what you say are doing a huge amount just to bring things out on the open and bringing your feelings to the table.
I thank you for that. I thank you for taking the time to write a few words or a lot about something that is passionate to you, no matter where you stand.
Everybody is trying, and here's to hoping people know at least that.
Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:28 pm
Thank you, thank you, thank you, Rance. HUGS HUGS HUGS 
Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:05 pm
This is not ONE incident. This is not ONE thing that has happened. This is a huge line of incidents, and the bannings of our members and the OFFICIAL response of the op team was simply the last load-bearing rock that caused an avalanche.
And this is what I meant by the fact that we NEED to post logs and let players make *informed* decisions.
Rance, and all the other ops that are actually *working* for *us* - you have no idea how awesome you are. Major kudos.
And this is what I meant by the fact that we NEED to post logs and let players make *informed* decisions.
Rance, and all the other ops that are actually *working* for *us* - you have no idea how awesome you are. Major kudos.
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